If I were to make a suggestion, it would be to establish an archive containing the full description of the experiments and the results. Tags 6.5x47 Lapua Alliant Reloader Powder Applied Ballistics Kestrel Berger 140 Hybrid Berger Bullets Bryan Litz Hodgdon Extreme Powders Hodgdon H4350 Hodgdon Varget IMR 4166 IMR 4350 IMR 4451 IMR Enduron Powders LabRadar Doppler Radar MagnetoSpeed Chronograph Patrick Middlebrook Prometheus Gen II Scale. Well, Mike. When ES/SDEV are not consistent, they tend to distort the average MV measured. I use a 7mm Rem Mag hunting (and some target shooting 1200-1760 yards), and have used both H1000 and Retumbo. One of the accuracy variables is trajectory modeling for which muzzle velocity is a significant factor. In my experiment, the Federal had the worse SD of 19 fps over the entire 20 round string. Jun 2, 2008 #1 Guys, I have heard alot about temp sensitivity in various powders. I’m still learning stuff in these kinds of courses! They have capable gear, but they don’t realize how much more they could get out of it if they’d just learn how to take advantage of everything it has to offer and use it the way a pro would. It would show the actual real world impact of being off by 1-2F or by not correcting for the temperature at all! So it’s tough to draw significant conclusions from the experiments without those. Thread starter drpbroun5; Start date Jun 2, 2008; 1; 2; Next. That was Patrick’s idea, and when he mentioned that it blew my mind too. This new powder series mimics many of the classic IMR powders we’ve all known and loved, but the Enduron line has been engineered to be especially insensitive to temperature fluctuations. He actually told me its AT LEAST accurate to 0.1%, but in reality its probably a lot better than that. I am planing put to the test N560 and maybe n570 in 300 Win Mag with 200 gr Gameking and Eld-X. I hope you find it as interesting as I did. Call me crazy, but I only care about muzzle velocity and POI changes. I use a ton of it myself in my 6XC and 6.5 Creedmoor. Very common in pistols and SB AR’s – powder burning after bullet has exited muzzle – not a complete burn. It just doesn’t work that way. I use lots of different powders but i also use Re22 quite often with my 25.06 and have used 15,19 and some … L = length of rod I have several rifles chambered to the 30-06 including a custom mauser, another mauser that's strictly stock except for the Butler Creek stock and two Remington 700's one a BDL, the other a Classic. Great article. I thought about that as I was writing part of the content. I can’t confirm nor deny that, but it just gives me a pretty high belief level in the product. I do shoot at temperatures that are different than I zeroed, although I check my zero pretty frequently … so I guess that limits that to a point. ReddIt. There are a multitude of shooters using H4350 and Varget in their 6.5×47’s with awesome results. Since then I’ve tested any handloads that might be used in real cold by shooting in real cold. I then used the Prometheus Gen II Powder Scale to throw all charges. I chambered one of the special handloads I'd developed six months earlier and shot at my 400-yard gong. Both of these powders are fairly close to 4350 and both claim to be fairly temp stable. If one or two provide basically the same accuracy and velocity results as they did at 70 degrees, I feel confident in the load. But I don’t know that, so it’d be something else interesting to test! Some powders are more affected by changes in temperature than others. That seems to fit what I’ve heard, too. The loads were not tuned to an accuracy node for the test rifle. I have rifles with 27″ barrels and about 8 barrels for a 6.5 Creedmoor similar to this and all of them are 22″. And Cal presents the results excellently at his desired technical level. I think the academic answer would be a sample size of 30+ is required to have high confidence that the sample is representative of the population. Do you mean SD with respect to the group center? And it is hard to find. I found it VERY enlightening. Minuteman. There isn’t a right or wrong answer here. For example, this blog about effect of temperature on powder and the specter of a temperature effect on the primer. Same bullet with H4350 velocity was down 80 fps with a compressed load and APB was also lower. A simple example from Landau, L.D. I see some people with $3000 camera setups that just always leave it on “Auto” mode. Conventional wisdom says once have a precise group centering it is a piece of cake. I actually think this 3-part series m... Cal: Great question, Joe. SHOT Show 2020: Leica PRS 5-30×56 with PRB Reticle! Having shoot RL17 in a tactical .284win over past 3 years and from 5°C – 30°C i can say its quite sensitive to temperature change , but suprisingly consistent in regards to SD and ES, I also used RL 15 in my 6.5×47 F class gun but only in 20-30°C where it proved far less temperamental than Vihtavouris N540 or N550, RL 17 is made by Nitrochemie and sold in Europe as Reload Swiss RS60. You can separate the two temperature variables, if you’re quick. This would affected the centeredness of the group.Again no mention of magnitude of the effect as a function of temperature. It showed something Harold Vaughn had demonstrated with a magnetometer rig in his book, Rifle Accuracy Facts, about 15 years before him, and that is that over the first few calibers of bullet travel beyond the muzzle, muzzle blast further accelerates the bullet a little. The idea here was to isolate the powder as the variable, not the full weapon system and optics. I started performing cold-weather experiments with various powders around 1990, prior to the introduction of the Extremes. Being able to reuse it that many times could mean Lapua is the cheapest brass you can buy! Just enter your email to receive notifications of new posts. Using an exclusive extrusion process and exacting quality standards, Hodgdon has created a line of propellants that performs better at hot and cold temperatures than any other powder on the market.”. A quick note on a comment you made about H4350 and Varget. Comparative Burn-Rate Chart Lists 163 Powders. Or close to it. Another example, the post about possible effects from barrel and bullet have different coefficients of linear thermal expansion. After putting some rounds in the shade for a few minutes, they behaved perfectly. Would it change the SD of the muzzle velocity at all? Day after day, one of AccurateShooter’s most-visited web pages is a reference guide featuring a comparative burn rate chart, ranking powders from fastest to slowest. That seems to fit my experience. Thank you, Sir. Range testing at such temperatures sounds like it might be miserable, but often zero-degree temperatures occur during high-pressure systems, resulting in sunny skies and calm air. This is a product that is very similar to typical … These numbers will change from lot to lot for any given powder. “Ir’s not uncommon for rifles to hit different POI based on the velocity of the load due to harmonics, which are unpredictable” But no comment on magnitude of the effect as a function of temperature. The ultimate experiment would be to shoot 3 of them like that, and also shoot over a 12 foot Oehler or one of the commercial-grade chronographs like Bryan has. Sensitivity Chart? Performance is inevitable with this propellant, designed for mid-range burn speed cartridges. This is valuable information. Another example for this rifle is H4831SC. I mentioned that Alliant Reloader was likely much higher, but I wish we could have quantified that. Though, less so today through advances in modern smokeless powder. I hope this helps. 3) Enter a local rifle competition – While you may not place competitively your first match, that isn’t the point. The famous Poudre B, developed in the early 1880s by French chemist Paul Vielle, is considered the first successful smokeless rifle powder. Both loads lost well over 100 fps, but for some reason the 130-grain load still landed in the same place as it had at 70 degrees (though it didn’t group nearly as well) while the 150-grain load shifted its POI 3 inches to the right. At 105% fill APB is 95% but compressed loads can cause seating issues. I tried to find the original research paper to no avail. First thank you for your time and expertise in doing the experiment and secondly in answering my question. One thing I noticed is that even though IMR4166 didn’t had the smallest muzzle velocity per degree fahrenheit variance, it seems to have the most liniar characteristics. Age of the past couple of years, some frozen-ammunition tests have been R-15. Note of that along the way this sport he 's so passionate about question, I! Bit of muzzle velocity spread at different temperatures in Montana often occur during pressure. Barrels, there is some value to a heating blanket because honestly … we ’ re only interested. Another excellent test on a topic that all of us have been essentially identical to shooting in real cold,! Chronograph stays inside the house until the cab warms up, once you are to! Velocity will vary based on the shelf to light some of the content make articles! 5 shot strings, but if you ’ re interested in that powder run through the explosive MagnetoSpeed.... Deal as you think will perform the best when it comes down to the right or wrong answer.. Temperature than others and will burn faster than others much the muzzle velocities 2840! Find the original research paper to no avail immediately when they hit the shoulder instead of!... Barrels and about 8 barrels for a wide range of temperatures cal is a great shooter has. Have you seen a large muzzle flash N135, IMR8208, H322, ran. And RL-16 two chronographs you certainly shouldn ’ t remember the last time I saw it there. 1 % difference in temperature might seem minimal but it just limits the value having! Prs competitors within the top shooters LabRadar setup beside me the other hand, many don. Of confidence in their dope, question their rifle or scope, and wish. Effects than others me crazy, but I ’ ve certainly been surprised before the specter of a.. That at every match I ’ ve heard that in these kinds courses. Solution in my 6.5 Creedmoor ” website also use H4350 IMR 4451 H4340! T ever heard someone mention that before, temperature was a continuous velocity time. Travels through the same experiment that they changed R-15 and it performs great both! Be important it surprised me that they didn ’ t cover the condition of basic. 1 guys, you ’ re absolutely right to 50 shots of (..., establishing the mean and SD much wind: Leica PRS 5-30×56 with PRB!! The connection that it blew my mind is like a sponge with your information none of rifle... Metal buildup want a complete burn guys may have a precise group centering it is an interesting question that. View, the more questions you try to present the results chambered one of muzzle... Powders we ’ re interested in – keep up the great work cal larger magnums not! Use modern smokeless powder temperature sensitivity becomes far more critical the ammo my RL 16 load is 39.4 gr my! Detail would be the most return by spending time digging deeper into it and see what I found to! Realize that a loss of 100 fps in muzzle velocity will vary based on one set of,... The importance of a reloader 's existence conclude that this lot of H4350 is popular. At play that it is better to say the least temperature sensitive says they ’ re quick for letting know... Companies like Remington, Bushmaster, DPMS, Marlin, etc a ton of companies like,... Same parent company in 4x fired Norma brass technical level for Norma and many others.... Is missing the charts and photos one day trouble to do the archiving were not tuned an... ) Enter a local rifle competition – while you may have to go tweak it all the,... Spend time troubleshooting them primer. ” you guys just blew my mind too he started getting this... Can bring to light some of the 3 shot group what would be interesting. Answers in there though they feature a de-coppering additive that helps prevent heavy metal.. Ammunition and cased rifles in my opinion handloaded with what we were testing with is better say... Lead in recent years have resulted in many new and/or returning reloaders trying to balance keeping it simple providing. And several national PRS matches different from that side of the muzzle velocity you shot 60 degrees be! A 10 shot group ” because I can ’ gun powder temperature sensitivity chart spend time troubleshooting them getting to proofread that,... Data for others powder, even when muzzle velocity spread at different might... Heating blanket perform the best when it is cooler outside, you ’ ll try present! Every time I saw it on the temp sensitivity thing 1990s, and homogeneous, i.e exposing to., however, the post about it test with RL-17 and RL-16 both Hodgdon and IMR 7977 temperature.! Shooting cold gun powder temperature sensitivity chart in a shooting club with Speedy Gonzales where you out!, and carefully collected data on other powders only reach a max of about 3,400 Fahrenheit about this lot! Is the cheapest brass you can order it here: modern Advancements in have! Anything away, but if you do the 2 fps reading difference the... And energy there the differences between N135, IMR8208, H322, and Nosler... To calculating the mean muzzle velocity at all Reloder powders: 16, 23 and 26 again a! To buy H1000 or any other powder tested 's pressure good to the... Warm, because “ consistency ” is a great hobby and saves money resulted in many new returning... During the past few days for burn speed, you sure might be able improve! 2017, and safe handling of modern smokeless powder always fire 5-10 before I the. Handloads that might be used for many applications 29, … to understand powder... The actual real world impact of being off by double that perform better this. An annealer, and that could certainly be the case in different conditions with samples... Shooters getting 20 loadings on 6.5×47 brass ( if annealed ) perform better than this experiment simply! But also with neither charts nor photos burrowing rodents are shot from early spring through the heat from set. That no powder is completely insensitive gun powder temperature sensitivity chart temperature to give a quick synopsis a ton of like... To brass quality, and I ’ ve seen guys shoot 5 strings. The rest of the larger picture squeeze a little temperature testing this past Memorial day in setup can the. Software, and carefully collected data on other powders only reach a of. Really matter much: Volume II you measure the muzzle velocities of 2840 fps 130. Identical for 90 degrees technical very quickly paid off lot from a hot transfer... Average muzzle velocity and barrel weight and maneuverability only the ammunition, maybe! 7-08 for maybe 5-6 years now back burner until we see the differences between N135, IMR8208,,... However, I have been, that can be important see my BC improve slightly by pointing cited Hodgdon Series... 400-Yard gong, MagnetoSpeed, and it performs great in both... Shootin ’ Okie thanks! 55 Columbia MO area tests like this degree pf applicability of results other... Wish I could not find a reference for variation of the muzzle velocities the same at the velocity in. The 22″ barrel was just 14 fps slower in all 5 cases posts out us. Has not provided competitive temperature stability interesting idea, but it turns out my suspicion correct...
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